tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post3759588144399284780..comments2023-11-05T07:45:02.082-05:00Comments on Mystery Man on Film: Script Review – Billy Mernit’s “The Trouble With My Sister”Mystery Manhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/17486331815227364944noreply@blogger.comBlogger17125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post-51123038956322630752007-07-30T21:40:00.000-04:002007-07-30T21:40:00.000-04:00I have two big reactions to that. (Great comment,...I have two big reactions to that. (Great comment, by the way.)<BR/><BR/>1 - There's a lot of weird stuff floating out there about what a screenwriter should/shouldn't do that I have frankly NEVER understood. And one has always been this notion that you can't "direct the director." How absurd is that? Of course, NO CAMERA ANGLES, and I completely agree. But we are expected to put the film on paper, are we not? We're supposed to write the visuals we see on the screen, right? What does that mean? It means you write the shots. But you don't use cheap crutches like "we see" and "we hear." We're professionals and the shots are implied. Of course, STORY is king but remember, this is a story that has to be rendered CINEMATICALLY and you really can't do that without writing the shots. People are always more inspired when they can visualize what's going on.<BR/><BR/>2 - Everything in this business is about relationships. If you write the shots, no one's going to take offense to it unless you're an arrogant prick and you walk into a room with, say, a director and a producer like your shit doesn't stink and you dictate how things are going to be in this film, and then, yeah, they're going to hate you. They're going to be offended by you do and write because it reflects your horrifying vanity. On the other hand, if you've written a script and you walk into that room and you defend your work by explaining what you were hoping to accomplish and you're open to a discussion about ideas and you're actually wonderful to talk to and it's not about YOUR vision as much as it is the beginning of the process of ideas, then no one's going to care about the fact you've written the shots. It's about the ideas you bring to the table. Everything falls back to relationships in the business, period.<BR/><BR/>-MMMystery Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17486331815227364944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post-8309771872562617712007-07-30T17:56:00.000-04:002007-07-30T17:56:00.000-04:00Directors aren't always the ultimate determinate o...Directors aren't always the ultimate determinate of how a film is told . . . sometimes it's the producer, sometimes it's the star, and sometimes they just shoot the script as written and it turns out fine . . . <BR/><BR/>That's why any discussion stating the director is author of a film is silly, because which director, when?<BR/><BR/>And giving feedback on this section going here or there, like an editor sometimes does, is a function of dramaturgy, not authorship. <BR/><BR/>I've done that for some fellow writers, it never made me author, because I DIDN'T WRITE IT, I responded to a story they wrote and made suggestions for improving the structure and / or story-telling techniques. Sometimes I suggested new scenes, but I didn't write them. <BR/><BR/>And I am credited as dramaturg, but not author.<BR/><BR/>I mean, does anyone really believe that Chris Columbus is author of the the First Harry Potter movie, and he had more power than JK?<BR/><BR/>Sometimes directors have great influence over the story, sometimes they don't. It depends on the producers, and the writers, and the story, right?<BR/><BR/>Either way, if they didn't write it, if they only told it, then they're not the author. <BR/><BR/>Editors often have great influence on some novels, but they're not authors . . . they're editors. <BR/><BR/>The director is already director, why give them another title?<BR/><BR/>The director is the director of the story. <BR/>The editor is editor of the story. <BR/>The writer is the author of the story. <BR/><BR/>Why does a movie need an author?<BR/><BR/>It has a director, usually, it has an editor, usually, sometimes it has a writer . . . but without a story (of which the writer is usually author of) there is no movie. <BR/><BR/>Sorry, I had to say that . . .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post-4505065357660046222007-07-30T11:58:00.000-04:002007-07-30T11:58:00.000-04:00I love this topic. And best of luck to you billy o...I love this topic. And best of luck to you billy on getting this made. (cuz then I can snag your script on Drew's script-o-rama, he he)Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05537155200839804221noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post-50277562547700003082007-07-30T09:10:00.000-04:002007-07-30T09:10:00.000-04:00Can't wait to hear it, dude . . . let 'er rip, I'm...Can't wait to hear it, dude . . . let 'er rip, I'm dying to know the real scoop.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post-24770741604837539532007-07-29T23:33:00.000-04:002007-07-29T23:33:00.000-04:00Whew!Hehehe... This is a great topic. I can't wa...Whew!<BR/><BR/>Hehehe... <BR/><BR/>This is a great topic. I can't wait to dive into it. I've been talking to a number of folks about this including a good pro writer, a screenwriting professor, and a pro reader. Believe me, I wouldn't steer you guys in the wrong direction. This'll be really great fun.<BR/><BR/>-MMMystery Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17486331815227364944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post-4494234243445578382007-07-29T20:40:00.000-04:002007-07-29T20:40:00.000-04:00I'm getting the feeling that we basically agree......I'm getting the feeling that we basically agree.....Mickey Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00412489099199994379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post-9659795510714472172007-07-29T19:15:00.000-04:002007-07-29T19:15:00.000-04:00Nena - Probably not.Mickey - A couple of things: t...Nena - Probably not.<BR/><BR/>Mickey - A couple of things: the director most certainly calls the shots, and I'm not making the point that writers dictate to anyone what the shots will be. Nor am I saying that this means that writers have to write "we see," "we hear," or any of that other stuff. This is about WHAT you write in the action lines and how you write it. I'm talking about implied camera directions and us guiding the camera in the action lines through the art of visual storytelling. That's an essential aspect. Notice in that second example, that tense moment when Madeline almost discovered Nathan in the basement, the way Billy guided WHAT we saw - the medium shots of him on the ground and her walking down the steps and then to heighten the tension, the implied closeups of her hand working the light and Nathan's eyes. There's nothing wrong with that approach. In fact, it's more exciting to read than general descrictions. Of course, a director may choose to do something different, which is great, and in fact, when he/she gets on the set, the production team may come up with something more interesting. Great! But the writer has to BEGIN the process of ideas in the script. You have to inspire people with the visual writing and implied camera directions in the action lines.<BR/><BR/>-MMMystery Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17486331815227364944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post-46111480166651588072007-07-29T16:28:00.000-04:002007-07-29T16:28:00.000-04:00MMI still stand by everything I said in my comment...MM<BR/><BR/>I still stand by everything I said in my comments on "The Inside Man" -- in that I still believe it is the director who is the ultimate determinant in HOW the story is going to be told, with the editor coming in second place. In fact, some writers don't realize that all those fancy flashbacks they are so enamored didn't come about until the director and editor sat down in a dingy room together. <BR/><BR/>And I think many frustrated writers will attest to this, which is why many want to become directors themselves.<BR/><BR/>Now, as I writer, I am all for "calling the shots" and I try to do this by describing things in the order I visualize them occurring or being seen. For instance, I'll put different visual cues in different paragraphs, and as you know, I'm a big fan of secondary headings.<BR/><BR/>But I have no need for "We see", "we hear", "close up" "zoom", "smash cut" and in fact I find it more challenging to write without all the crutches. And I'm glad to see that, other than the one instance, Billy doesn't use them either.Mickey Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00412489099199994379noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post-90361589026180614842007-07-29T12:12:00.000-04:002007-07-29T12:12:00.000-04:00Wow. I may never touch a mouse again. Don't suppos...Wow. I may never touch a mouse again. Don't suppose there's any way to read the entire screenplay?Nenahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10541540758313090000noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post-69923339980302887172007-07-29T00:31:00.000-04:002007-07-29T00:31:00.000-04:00I meant to say, no need to apologize to me for WE ...I meant to say, no need to apologize to me for WE SEE, I don't think there's anything wrong with it, I truly don't, and I think niggling over details like this, in all scripts, tends to distract from the story and the writing . . . <BR/><BR/>That's my opinion, anyway . . .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post-80591907242470123552007-07-28T22:23:00.000-04:002007-07-28T22:23:00.000-04:00Some GREAT scripts begin with WE SEE, just off the...Some GREAT scripts begin with WE SEE, just off the top of my head, AMERICAN BEAUTY, the Cohen's first film . . . there are many films that use WE SEE quite fine . . . <BR/><BR/>Great, I get that some folks don't like it, but I don't believe it's a sign that a screenplay is not well written . . . it's simply a choice made . . .Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post-17572905863924562972007-07-28T19:33:00.000-04:002007-07-28T19:33:00.000-04:00First of all, a huge thank-you to MM for lavishing...First of all, a huge thank-you to MM for lavishing such time and such insightful musings on my work! Getting this kind of "careful read" is a tonic in the face of the usual indifference one encounters from industry folk when it comes to matters of craft.<BR/><BR/>But now I need to apologize to Joshua, because (AURGH!) you're right: I'm personally not fond of the "we see" device and I strenuously try to avoid it... so it pains me to realize I slipped up this way -- on my very first page, no less. Please forgive me (as I'm not apt to forgive myself, and will compulsively revise that passage, now that you've drawn my attention to it).<BR/><BR/>Like any craft convenience, the problem with "we see" is that it too easily becomes a crutch, and the pros who use it tend to overuse it; and while it goes without saying, I'll duly note that really, since technically "we see" everything that's on the page, the only legitimate excuse for a "we see" is if you're telling us about something a character in the movie DOESN'T see, but we (the audience) DO; however, even in this case, there are other ways to write it.<BR/><BR/>Meanwhile, I'm glad you're all getting something out of the excerpts and MM's commentary, and yes: let's hear it for colons!<BR/><BR/>And let's hear it for MM, who's not only providing a very neat service here, but has some interesting notions about further development on my draft, which I will duly consider...mernitmanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09185401856113179709noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post-15767785787720535422007-07-28T18:59:00.000-04:002007-07-28T18:59:00.000-04:00Thanks, guys!Joshua - If I remember correctly, I b...Thanks, guys!<BR/><BR/>Joshua - If I remember correctly, I believe this is the only time in Billy's spec where he wrote "we see." A minor mistake that yes, could've been avoided, and once isn't the end of the world, but screenwriters should never do that. One can always find ways of avoiding it. But the bigger point here was just the way he approached the descriptions in the actions, which quietly guided the minds eye AND the camera. It's a movie on paper, which is exactly what a screenplay should be. Hope that helps.<BR/><BR/>-MMMystery Manhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17486331815227364944noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post-14748018224309956662007-07-28T18:39:00.000-04:002007-07-28T18:39:00.000-04:00Great stuff, especially the secondary headings, bu...Great stuff, especially the secondary headings, but I have to add this . . . <BR/><BR/>I cannot TELL you HOW much SHIT I've gotten whenever I write out shots. <BR/><BR/>Can't tell ya . . . granted, I don't think I've been exposed to as many readers as some of y'all, but I have to say I've heard it many, many times. <BR/><BR/>If I recall, there were a few pro readers (I think it was on Scott's blog, not him but some commenting) who said they objected to WE SEE in action direction lines . . . and that it smacked of bad writing. <BR/><BR/>And when I pointed out that pro's do it, I was told that PROS can do it cause they've proven themselves, spec monkey's can't. <BR/><BR/>Which smacks of bull to me, but it's what I've read and been told. <BR/><BR/>Now if it's just a personal preference, that's cool . . . there are things I am none too fond of myself . . . <BR/><BR/>However I have to say I've heard (and I cannot comment more than that) that this kinda of "mistake" and other, simple things, will cause a reader rating a script to knock it down a notch. <BR/><BR/>I don't know if it's because there is no one way of evaluating a script, or what . . . but it is frustrating . . . I think sometimes a writing HAS to write the shot, they HAVE TO . . . and being told it's forbidden is frustrating . . . <BR/><BR/>I dunno . . . have I just not run into the right readers, or what?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post-42421227688964293112007-07-28T15:57:00.000-04:002007-07-28T15:57:00.000-04:00Thanks MM and also to BM for providing a sneak pee...Thanks MM and also to BM for providing a sneak peek! The thing I love about this is the insight... the action lines don't (and likely won't) ever get the mad props they deserve because they're only seen by readers. But this here reader is grateful. :)crosswordhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10495338772991002583noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post-36393692359462228272007-07-28T11:09:00.000-04:002007-07-28T11:09:00.000-04:00Colons are our friends.Thanks so much, MM. I'm se...Colons are our friends.<BR/><BR/>Thanks so much, MM. I'm sending this to my partner. We both try to set up shots in our action lines to inspire the director, but it never hurts to have a refresher course.Mimhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11590214841424958129noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30413383.post-74503111348516053522007-07-28T07:47:00.000-04:002007-07-28T07:47:00.000-04:00Thank you for providing those example snippets. I...Thank you for providing those example snippets. I've always struggled with the punctuation when cutting away from a description to a new slug or secondary heading in the middle of a sentence. Colons! Yeah!GimmeABreakhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14681053662706062151noreply@blogger.com